Germ Theory vs. Terrain Theory in Holistic Well-being with Dr. Jeremy Ayres, John Gusty & Pamela Wirth

Germ Theory vs. Terrain Theory in Holistic Well-being with Dr. Jeremy Ayres, John Gusty & Pamela Wirth

Pamela  : Hi, this is Pamela Worth with the Encourage and Wellness Podcast, and today I'm so excited. It's fun to have a couple of people with us. We have Dr. Jeremy, co-author of "The Red Pill Revolution: Passionately Uncovering Deception in the Medical Industrial Complex and Its Links to Pharma and Food Industries." He is a senior practitioner of Physical Medicine and a naturopathic consultant. He merges chiropractic, osteopathy, and naturopathy, trained in the UK. As an international natural health educator, he guides numerous individuals towards natural healing. His mission involves blending Eastern wisdom with Western science, challenging medical manipulation, and advocating for holistic well-being to create a healthier world. Welcome, Dr. Jeremy!

We also have John Gusty. John, you've got an incredible journey as well. Over 30 years in the entertainment industry, working behind the curtain for some of music's biggest names, you turned your attention to health and wellness in an effort to help your wife heal from what was originally diagnosed as multiple sclerosis. Soon, you realized the same deceit and profit motive that plagued the entertainment media was even worse inside the medical industrial complex. Thank you both so much for being here.

I would love to talk about your health and wellness journeys, prescriptions, prevention, food, health literacy, mind-body-spirit connection, electromagnetic influences, and all the things that come into play for optimal health and wellness.

John Gusty :Great, well, first of all, thank you so much for having us both. And Jeremy, extra special thanks to you for staying up late tonight to do this from the UK.

Our hearts are all about conversation, sharing knowledge, and learning our way forward. There are just some things in life that we've all been programmed and manipulated to believe that can't be talked about or questioned, or that should just be accepted at face value. There are many examples of this. I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, but just to give examples: you bring up the Holocaust, and there are things you can't talk about on certain topics like that. Again, not wanting to get into the Holocaust or anything, but one of those things was a series of events that happened in 2020. You may have noticed some things happened, and during that time, it became more obvious to me—and I come from the music industry, where everything is supposed to be on the table, right?—but these events happened, and you watched how no one could question anything. No one was allowed to question anything.

Regardless of what side you're on or what your opinion is, I think every single person listening to or watching this knows or felt in some way during those events that there were certain things that couldn't be questioned or talked about. That just, I don't know, I found, and I know Jeremy feels the same because we've bonded so much over this, but if you want to find out where there's a honeypot of knowledge, just look at the things you can't talk about. There's usually a good reason why and a lot of truth when you start digging into those honeypots.

That's really how the "Red Pill Revolution" book came about. It's taking a good general look at the wacky playing field that we're all on right now and how to navigate that without getting caught up in anger or frustration, because all of that stuff leads to disease. You have to be healthy up here [points to head] to be healthy everywhere else. And vice versa. That's where I'm coming from. Jeremy, did I represent you well?

Jeremy Ayres : Yeah, that's great, John. We came from two extremely different perspectives: John from the music industry and me from medicine, albeit commonly called alternative medicine. When I was 12 years old, cancer came into my family for the first time. My brother's wife's mother had cancer and eventually passed away from it. Although now, I would suggest it was from the treatment rather than the disease itself. As a 12-year-old boy, in a very simplistic, innocent way, seeing all the anger, upset, and worry that comes into families when these terrible things happen, I thought, "Well, this has got to be fixed." That's really where it began for me, Pamela.

I didn't think much of it for quite a few years until I was in my early 20s. At that time, I was an international canoeist representing Great Britain when I hurt my back very badly. I had never liked doctors; I didn't know why, I just didn't like going to them. So, I went to an osteopath, which is similar to a chiropractor in case people don't know. Long story short, my pain went away, and I thought this was magic. I wanted to get into it, so I started training in osteopathy. Once I eventually passed as an osteopath, it rekindled my interest in healing cancer. It all came back to me, and I naively thought there must be a degree course or something out there that does this.

Of course, as you probably can guess, Pamela, many of the great discoveries aren't made by doctors or scientists but by ordinary folks where disease came into their family. As I started to research—and I've never stopped for the last 30 years—the more I researched, the more isolated I became. You realize that when you get closer to understanding how to heal people or at least how to ask the right questions, it doesn't make you more popular; it makes you more isolated, even professionally. You end up in this sort of arena where ordinary folks ask, "Well, how come my doctor doesn't know this?" or "Why aren't you on TV talking about this?"

That's ultimately what got us to write the "Red Pill Revolution." We needed to explain why we aren't on TV talking about this and why doctors like us and others face suppression. At best, it's a profit-driven sick industry; it's certainly not a healthcare industry. I'm sure you've experienced this firsthand when your child was unwell.

Pamela : Yeah, so talk to us a little bit about when someone is coming to you and wanting guidance and support in their health and wellness journey. What do you find is your first go-to, and what questions do you like to ask? That then becomes your protocol, right?

Jeremy Ayres  :Oh, absolutely. Excuse me, let me drink some water here. I was taught by two very good people, and the most important thing I learned from Barbara and a great naturopath was how to take a case history. She taught some very strong philosophy, and I think philosophy is very important. The basic philosophy is that your body just doesn't know how to work against you; it's just not made that way. This can sound quite weird to people who have been sick or known people who have been sick, but it just isn't made that way.

By taking a case history, we can see how, since they were born and often before they were born, they've gone along and collected toxicity. It's not just chemicals and heavy metals; it can often be trauma and behavioral traits. So, you take a case history and see how it accumulated in the body. At different times, the body had attempts to get rid of it, which we would call detoxification, but a doctor would probably want to label it with some kind of diagnosed disease and then start treating it. Either you're helping the body to release it, or you're helping it to be suppressed, and it gets pushed deeper into a more serious state of disease.

For me, teaching and taking a case history, understanding how you got sick, and the many causes of what's caused your body to start functioning in a way that is not good is really the key. Then, giving that back to the patient or the client helps them understand more easily why you're suggesting they start making changes or doing certain protocols. Let's face it, most people don't want to change, and that's why allopathic medicine, which is symptom-based treatment, is so popular. You don't have to take responsibility or consider that maybe you're doing things wrong or maybe you've been poisoned. You just want to take something and feel better. But that's really the core of it for me, and that's what makes it so special and so powerful.

Pamela : So, what are some of the questions that you like to start with? Leaning into your comments, it's sadly a huge part of why we end up getting sick and having symptoms because our bodies are just overloaded. What are some of your favorite questions and things that you like to help people detoxify?

Jeremy Ayres : Oh goodness, where do you want to go with that? I think it strangely starts with the concept of "you're not sick, you're toxic," which is one of the major ideas I want to teach people. Their body doesn't know how to work against them. For example, my wife of 14 years was terminally ill with breast cancer when I met her. She'd had all the surgery, radiation, and chemotherapy, and that's when she first started to feel ill and thought she was going to lose her life. When I took her case history, we found several things, more than I will talk about here.

One of them was that she had amalgam fillings, which, as you and your listeners probably know, contain a large amount of mercury and copper. All these fillings leak, even though the American Dental Association says they don't. It's a very toxic heavy metal that gets breathed into the lungs. Another discovery was that she had been using underarm deodorant for 20 to 30 years. Where do you think these chemicals go? They go into the armpit and straight into the breast. She was also drinking Coke Zero because, like many people, she had been educated that sugar is bad for you. While on the right track, she should have switched to water, but instead, she chose Diet Coke or aspartame-sweetened Coke, which was also a major contributing factor. Then there were levels of trauma.

Once you start to discover the different causes and literally put the pieces of the jigsaw together, they can see the picture of why they’re ill. Usually, people come to you with a label. My wife didn't have breast cancer; she had mercury poisoning, chemical poisoning from the deodorant, chemical poisoning from the Coke Zero, and a lot of trauma, among other things. When you present it like that, all of a sudden, from the fear of the disease they've been told they have, they start to see, "Oh, I can do something about that." Then we introduced the protocols and detox protocols and so on and so forth. But that's the key for me.

Pamela : What are some of the misconceptions between allopathic, functional, and integrative health?

John Gusty : can I take that one?

Jeremy Ayres : You go John

John Gusty : Yeah, all right. So first and foremost, let's make sure, I'm sure your listeners do, but let's make sure that people understand what the allopathic system, which I would refer to as the medical industrial complex, entails. That's an ideology; it's, you might even argue that it's close to a religion, because it thinks about the body and the way the body works in a particular way. It's theoretical; it's not factual. So just taking an allopathic approach is, by definition, you're already looking at things in a very, very specific boxed-in sort of way.

The opposite of allopath, which would be, and I would argue there's not a lot of room for creativity or individuality in the allopathic approach to things, it's very cut and dry. If you go, if you notice the next time you're in a doctor's office or whatever, you'll see anymore everyone, the nurses or the doctors have tablets, and they're going through it, they're putting things into a template, you know, and if this, then that. They're not—I don't want to insult everyone in the profession, but they're not using natural human diagnostic skills like a mechanic, like an auto mechanic would use. An auto mechanic is going to start with the basics; they're going to look at the vital fluids—the oil, the gas, the water, the brake fluid, the transmission fluid. You can tell a lot from what's going on with those fluids.

Well, why doesn't every medical professional have a microscope on their desk? And I think a lot of people would be stunned to find out, and I've actually gotten, I've never been in a fistfight, but I've come really close, and it was because of this particular conversation because I learned, we learned something very, very significant about my wife years ago, and it was something that should have been spotted early, early on. And I asked the doctor, I was like, you know, this is, this is like elementary level stuff. Why don't you have a microscope on your desk? Why are we talking about this years later? And come to find out, it's actually illegal to do live blood analysis. It's a fascinating subject; it is illegal in the United States for a doctor, the patient, and the patient's blood all to be in the same room together with the doctor giving any sort of diagnosis based off of just that alone. Should blow people's minds. But there's people sitting in federal prison right now for having the audacity to do what I just said. There's at least a half a dozen people in the US alone that are imprisoned for that very crime of doing actual diagnostic practices.

And so, we just don't, we in mass, and I think the events of 2020 should have woken a lot of people up to this, we need to start holding that industry as accountable as we hold any other industry. I mean, when people's cable TV goes out, they lose their minds, and they're on the phone to Comcast, you know, the game's on. Or when their phones stop working, they get on the phone to AT&T, and they lose their mind. We need to hold the medical industrial complex to the same passionate set of standards that we hold other industries to. And again, as I said earlier, it seems to me, in mass, and 2020 illustrated it perfectly, that questioning the medical industrial complex or any of their workers, I mean, I've had doctors get mad at me for just asking questions. I mean, actually visibly mad. One in particular was shaking. That I had the audacity, and I wasn't being a jerk, I wasn't being pompous or anything, I was simply asking questions. This is about the most precious topic to me in my, that it could be, is about my wife. And I was asking good, honest, investigative questions that anybody who was watching their loved one go through something would ask. You probably asked very similar questions when you were having the situation with your child.

Pamela : Very well, with my mom. She's almost six years with a 90-day-to-live stage four cancer diagnosis. A very well-known national medical authority refused to order a PET scan for her, but said it was in her brain and blood by now, metastasized. I asked, "Where's the proof?" They got mad again. So, I found a doctor who allowed us to pay cash for a PET scan, and lo and behold, it wasn't all over. You really have to fight to get those results.

Similarly, with her cancer, she had done 18 chemotherapies, multiple radiations, and a couple of surgeries. They said it was time to plan; she felt so sick, like she was going to die. She insisted there must be another way. Friends had told me about Mexico; she agreed to go. Sure enough, all her tumors are either gone or much smaller. Her cancer markers are cut in half, and she's doing great. She's never felt better, doing her own dinners, lunches with friends, shopping, traveling—the whole nine yards and traveling but that doctor we went

John Gusty : I will say, real quick before I lose this: Mexico has some of the best medical treatment I've ever witnessed with my own eyes. I've been all over, trying to get answers for my wife, and Mexico, some of the best medical treatment I've ever witnessed with my own eyes has been in Mexico. It's because they're allowed creativity and individuality without the threat of being thrown in a cage for having the audacity to be creative or an individual.

Pameal : And it's mind-blowing to me because the care was incredibly good. The doctor's offices, clinics, and hospitals were very clean, beautiful campuses. I'm just blown away. They have microscopes on their desks. So, when we did our intake appointments, I don't like having my finger pricked, but he did, and then he put it under the microscope. He said, "Well, you know, you're dehydrated, and it looks like you may have a fungal infection." I was like, "I have a what?" He said, "We're going to treat you with an ozone treatment, and you're going to be fine." I said, "Okay." Then he did hers, and he said, "Oh yeah, I see this and this, and we're going to take care of that, help you detox properly." Anyway, it's mind-blowing because there is so much that you can see with a live blood test right on the spot.

John Gusty :  That should be the very first step whenever anybody encounters a medical professional and they're trying to figure out a problem. They should be looking at the blood, they should be looking at the saliva, they should be looking at the urine, they should be looking at the stools. I mean, those are the basics. You can tell an awful lot about what is right and what is wrong. And I don't know, I'm thinking like an auto mechanic, but I don't know how you could move forward without having looked at those at least those four very basic starters. Just look there, and that will inform what you may or may not do next. And that is not how people get treated here in the US or many other places as well.

Pamela :  Yeah, so that was part of my frustration with my son. It took me a half dozen doctors to find one that was willing to do lab testing to find out what was really going on. Because you can't—it's no different than when you're running a company or something else—there's always a trigger that starts the problem. So what happened? Let's work backwards and figure out how to fix it, right?

At the time, the problem was that lab testing was crazy expensive. I had to sell a car to have enough cash to pay for it. Thankfully, now it's not as expensive and you can get basically everything you need for 10-20% of what it cost 10-20 years ago. Now the challenge still lies in finding a practitioner that is willing to listen and help you find those lab tests.

Where do you suggest people learn about options available to them for health and wellness and how to find practitioners that can help you get to the "why"?

John Gusty : Jeremy, why don't you answer that from a global perspective? I can give you the Tennessee US perspective, but I think you've got a better global perspective.


Jeremy Ayres : Yeah, I think the conversation is excellent because I think where I'd want to come at it is what most people's experiences, yours and John's, and certainly every client that I've ever taken a consultation with, pretty much has been a negative experience whether it be in the UK or Canada or the states or whatever. There seems to be a common theme running through that where you're not allowed to ask questions, and there's a very God complex frequently. I think we have to look at the history of where it's come from so people can start to understand why that industry has gone the way it is.

As you probably know, it originated from the Rockefeller Foundation or the Carnegie Foundation, which is really Rockefeller medicine where they needed to start doing more with their oil and petroleum-based medicines were born. Essentially, a new industry was launched: the allopathic medicine industry with a business model to take over the world and make it the only legal, protected medicine. And that's what they've done. They've destroyed all the other philosophies pretty much and they've made it the only legally protected and number one medical place to go. Unfortunately, what that has fostered is a great deal of arrogance, but it's also suppressed all this wonderful knowledge.

There are many doctors and nurses that I know, many of them that would have loved to have explored and brought in more diagnostics, but the environment that's been set up is that if they do, they'll lose their license and lose their status and lose their income. So very quickly, the really good doctors and nurses that want to forge ahead find themselves in a very trapped environment. And if anybody doubts that and falls for the sales pitch that we're living longer and healthier than ever before, I think you only have to ask anybody in the last 50 years in any country, are we sicker or healthier? And I think everybody knows this.

And this is pre-COVID or I call it 'convid' because we can talk about that maybe later. But you know, pre-COVID or the PCR data scam that went on to create a fake pandemic, but pre that, we've become sicker and sicker and sicker. And I think everybody knows this. And if modern medicine has benefited from a business model and so off the back of that and particularly through the COVID era where I think it became very obvious that doctors in the system were suppressed about talking and certainly the doctors outside the system, it seems to me, certainly by the amount of people writing to us, that a sort of revolution of interest has now begun.

And so the networking around the world, and I'm not surprised you said Mexico, there's just some wonderful, I'm not sure which clinic you went to, the Hoxsey or Gerson or which one you may have gone to because there's so many good ones, but there seems to be a revolution of interest in non-allopathic medicine. And so people are talking, and that's all John and I are about. They're talking, they're having conversations, they're getting on YouTube, although most of the great stuff—I mean, I've been constantly banned on YouTube, so most of the great stuff still gets banned, but there's Rumble, and there's Facebook, and things are being shared.

And you know, that's why we started a membership site for that very reason, where people can come in a safe place, and I don't mean that in the safe space bubble, but in a place where you're not going to be kicked out for asking the wrong question or having a different opinion from us. So I just think we're in a very positive time. Your podcast, you know, many, many more like you, they're getting more and more views and more and more interest. And this is what's happening. There's a revolution of consciousness, change in asking better questions, and from that, we get better answers.

And I hope you'll agree because I've seen raw vegans heal themselves from cancer, I've seen carnivores heal from cancer, I've seen every kind of... I've seen people that didn't change their diet heal from cancer. If it was just diet, although I think we should all agree that there's true food and there's processed food, but if it was just diet, we'd all give the same diet and go off and get well. It's not. It's artificial light exposure as a toxicity. It's natural light. It is trauma held in the body. It is dental problems. It's so many factors that can be the tipping point between someone getting sick and conversely, someone getting ill.

But I think it's such an exciting time for the revolution of what I like to call true medicine. And let's rock on with it.

Pamela  : So where do people find doctors, integrative and functional doctors, that are able to help them get to the bottom of what's going on? Where do you look?

Jeremy Ayres : Well, I tell you, I've had I don't go looking for doctors. In fact, I try to stay away from doctors, but I go looking for information or answers to things. So, I find myself talking to doctors and medical professionals a lot because, you know, they're out there, and you can find them. I've found that when I am talking to a medical professional, I will do two things: first of all, I'll ask what they think about the terrain theory versus germ theory. Just ask them. They don't have to declare anything. If they don't even know what the terrain theory is, I would probably seek answers or consultation elsewhere. That means that they're all in on the medical industrial complex template, which is: you're either going to burn them, drug them, or cut them. There are usually other answers. You don't always have to be drugged, cut, or burned through radiation or chemotherapy.

Pamela : So, what does TR mean to you? What does it mean for anybody that's listening, that may or may not really understand what that is?

John Gusty : What was a question I'm sorry 

Pamela : About Terrain Theory

John Gusty :So, there's just like with any other ideology, you know, there's more than one possibility. I mean, look at religions; there are different religions and they believe different things. There are different political parties, and they believe different things. Well, there are different theories as to how the body works. There's the Germ Theory, which is what allopathic modern medicine is anchored in, and then there's Terrain Theory. Terrain Theory is, I know Jeremy's got one of the best, most like he's got a great way to explain the difference, but it is basically... Jeremy, you think using the fish tank analogy is the way to go. You want to

Jeremy Ayres :It's the simplest way to show a relatively complex theory, but absolutely go for it!

John Gusty : So, if something was wrong with the fish tank, like if you saw the fish and there was something wrong with the fish, would you consider at all the terrain—the water that the fish is swimming in, the light that is shining on the water, the other things in the water, you know? And I think the obvious answer would be, of course you would. Of course you would. But the Germ Theory is the exact opposite way of thinking. The Germ Theory would say there's something wrong inside that fish, and something artificial, man-made, is likely going to need to be the answer to that problem.

Jeremy Ayres : Well, I'll jump on that if you don't mind and hopefully clean up a little bit. If the fish tank was visibly dirty and the oxygen levels had been turned down, and the fish were getting ill with all different kinds of named diseases, you know, I always say, you know, what medicine would you give the fish? And most people will go, "Well, what are you talking about? You'd clean up the water first of all, you'd get the oxygen levels right, you'd test the pH, and then probably the fish would recover. And then, if they didn't, maybe you'd intervene." The fish tank represents your body and your fluids, and the fish are your cells. So, the Terrain Theory, which has now been proven as far as I'm concerned because they've videoed these things now, and one of the best books is the Gaston Naessens book. I can't remember the title off the top of my head now, but the Gaston Naessens book, oh, that's it, "The Trial of Gaston Naessens," because he actually took the Terrain and Germ Theory to court in Canada and won. But they didn't publish that, you know, but essentially, their origins were, who was a real plagiarist actually, and Béchamp, who wasn't well-known but very studious. Béchamp showed that the germ, very simplified, was nothing and the terrain was everything. And as the terrain, meaning how dirty the fluids that surround the cells, changed, so did the germs. They multiplied, they actually morphed into different things. And when you clean that up, they reversed, actually, back sort of the reverse of the Incredible Hulk, they could go up and down, should we say, whereas Béchamp wasn't quite studious and was more interested in making himself more famous and well-known and looking after his career. He said the germ is everything, kill the germ and that's it. And that's what launched allopathic and the chemists into a world of, "Well, we kill everything, eventually you'll be well." But that just hasn't worked out that way.

John Gusty : That was said by Pasteur, you said?

Jeremy Ayres : Did I? Yeah, Pasteur said, "The germ is everything," so it's really the opposite philosophies. And certainly, after 30 years of cleaning up people's bodies with all kinds of labels of bacterial and viral parasites, you know, we just see incredible things. Incredible things come out of them, but also incredible changes in their blood. And this is why John and I love live blood analysis because it's a real picture of how dirty, you know, people's, well, in this case, that plasma and things are.

John Gusty : But I think your question was, "How do you find the right people who might be working in the right mindset and the right modalities to actually solve the problem?" I think that's a great screening question, and again, it's non-confrontational because just by watching the way they answer that question, you can tell what team they're on, let's put it that way. You can tell what team they're on, and if they're going to... you know, and you can choose accordingly. But I have found when you ask questions like that, you're going to get one of two types of medical professionals: you're going to get the medical professional that's a good team player, and they're going to give you the "buy the book" answer, and, you know, no offense to those people, they serve a purpose, and you'll get that. But the magic is you'll get people who are probably more like us, and they'll look around nervously, they'll go, "I'm so into the terrain theory," you know, and those are the people.

Pamela : I think it's great to find people willing to explore more than one approach to health and wellness. It's been great to have you guys on. How can people find out more about you?"

John Gusty :

Pamela :  Awesome! Well, thank you guys so much. It's been a real pleasure.

John Gusty  : Absolutely, thank you

Jeremy Ayres : Thank you Pamela

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